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you2idea@video:~$ watch 07twxy9TpQo [1:20:02]

// transcript — 2638 segments

0:02 when I give away a bunch of free startup ideas, the exact playbooks of how to do

0:06 it, and then I get a DM saying, "I just hit 1 million ARR and it I was able to

0:11 retire my mom." If anyone has good ideas for AI startups, it's people who work at

0:14 jobs they don't like. If you're listening to this, you're early and you

0:18 can actually go and participate and create businesses around that. That's

0:22 why it excites me. You have like this fivestep framework of how someone can

0:28 build an AI business in 2025. Let's do like a quick 5 10 minute crash course on

0:33 two AI products I think would be really valuable to people. So, okay, before we

0:37 get into the episode, I want to give some context to this conversation. In

0:42 the last few months, I've gone deep down the AI rabbit hole on YouTube. And one

0:46 of the things that has become clear to me is that there is so much opportunity

0:52 right now to use AI to build a great business for your life. And so I got

0:55 inspired in the leadup to this conversation with Greg because I believe

0:59 that so many people, maybe you watching at home, get excluded from these new

1:04 wealth opportunities because of the belief that you're not a tech person.

1:08 And so my intention with this episode was to make it so easy and simple for

1:15 you to start an AI business. And so we brought on Greg Eisenberg. He's a

1:19 successful entrepreneur. He's also a tech outsider that built and sold three

1:26 companies before he turned 30 and is now building a multi-million dollar AI

1:31 company called Boring Marketing. And a little behind the scenes before we even

1:36 hit record on this episode, Greg told me that in the last year, he has shared

1:41 this framework with a few people in his network and they've gone on to build AI

1:47 businesses that make over $50,000 a month. And so my hope with this episode

1:51 is simple. That some of you watch this video, it inspires you to take massive

1:57 action. And by this time next year, you're DMing me saying that I just built

2:02 my first milliondoll AI business. That's it. I'm speaking that into existence for

2:06 you guys. Let's get into the video. Greg, if someone's listening to this,

2:11 maybe they stumbled upon this video on YouTube, they clicked on it on their

2:16 feed. What is going to be the value to them? They're non-technical, but they

2:20 want to start a business. What is going to be the value to them of listening to

2:25 this conversation of what we're about to talk about in the next 60 minutes?

2:31 So my thesis is that, you know, if you landed here and you're on this YouTube

2:37 video and you are seeing what's happening in the world of AI and technology and you feel

2:43 like an outsider, my thesis is that that's a limiting belief. And by the end of this

2:51 episode, what I hope to do is to remove that veil, because that's what it is,

2:58 and give you the confidence to actually go and put something out in the world

3:04 that will change your life. I think that's awesome. Let's do Let's

3:08 do that. Let's try to do it. Let's do it right now. Um, you know, actually, you

3:13 know what? Let's start let's start right in the beginning cuz I see these videos

3:17 on YouTube talking about people that are making millions of dollars with AI

3:22 agents. I want to start right from the top. What is an AI agent?

3:28 Yeah. So, good question. Um, an AI agent is well, do you know what an LL LLM is?

3:40 Le let's start with that. Okay. So, here's the way I I'm going to

3:46 just dumb it down because I think uh what insiders like to do is put

3:51 complicated words associated to simple things to keep people out. So, in this

3:56 conversation, we're going to try to use simple simple language. Um because I

4:01 actually don't think that the terms really matter. Large language model

4:07 doesn't really matter. What matters is this. Before uh AI came to be, all software was dumb.

4:17 Meaning if you were if you signed up to salesforce.com, which is uh a CRM,

4:22 custom, you know, customer relationship management software, basically a way to

4:26 track all your sales leads if you signed up to it. uh preai that software was dumb because it

4:40 relied on the salesperson to go in and add uh a sales lead manually. So it

4:46 would say Greg Eisenberg is a good sales lead and it says Greg Eisenberg my email

4:51 address company I work for and it's basically this manual process and a multi- trillion dollar

5:00 industry was created on dumb software um now we're entering an era uh of smart

5:07 software I call it smart software what happens to software when you can

5:13 inject human and humanlike intelligence into that software. And what do I mean by that?

5:21 Instead of relying on uh a human being to go and say, "Okay, Greg Eisenberg is

5:26 a four out of five star lead for these reasons, what if there was intelligence,

5:35 humanlike intelligence, aka an LLM, aka AI, that could go and, you know, maybe

5:41 scrape the internet and based on a bunch of criteria score the the sales lead."

5:49 Now, that's what a LLM really is. And that when you know when people, you

5:52 know, they hear about or they've used Chat GBT and products like that, you're

5:59 basically you utilizing humanlike intelligence to accomplish a

6:06 task. And what an agent is takes it a a little step further. It says, okay,

6:11 we've got humanike intelligence over here. What if we can create a human-like

6:16 person to go and actually complete the task? Meaning, what if we can create an

6:20 AI saleserson? So, what if you can go and say, um, I would like to close 10 sales leads

6:32 this month. And the ideal customer profile is a CEO who is making between

6:37 one and $10 million a year in their business. and they need to be

6:44 in you know England let's say um go and complete that task in the past you would

6:49 actually ask a human being to do that but in this new you know smart software

6:58 uh world you can actually give a task to a human-like individual to go and

7:05 complete it now I want to end I want to just say one last thing before before I

7:09 hear your reaction to this. When you when I go on X or Instagram or whatever, I'm seeing

7:17 everyone talking about AI. I still think despite that, it's underrated. I still

7:21 think that we don't understand how society will change. And by the way, they'll there'll be some

7:30 negative effects to this. We can talk about it but there will be some negative

7:34 effects to this but how society will change when you can completely unlock

7:43 uh humanlike intelligence and human like people at scale what happens to the

7:48 world now I like to look at it glass half full as in if you're listening to

7:53 this you're early and you can actually go and participate and create businesses

7:58 around that um and that's what that's why it excites me H you know I I I just

8:04 find the AI conversation it's just so fascinating. Um and you know what you

8:08 even mentioned right at the end there you mentioned that it's underrated and

8:11 so I was thinking about what you were saying about like up until this point

8:16 we've been using dumb software like we've had to it's had to be paired with

8:20 our own intelligence to actually be like useful and that's created trillions of

8:26 dollars of value with dumb software. And now we're kind of getting into this like

8:31 AI era where we now have as you called it smart software. And so if we're

8:38 actually underrating it right now, what in your mind what is the the

8:44 opportunity? Like it's hard to do, but like how would you even quantify the

8:49 opportunity or what's going to happen in the future looking forward? The fact

8:54 that we now have smart software. Yeah. I want to talk about two specific

9:02 examples. Uh and and there's more than these two specific ones, but I just want

9:06 to give a couple just to get people's creative juices flowing. One

9:12 is my belief is that SAS the SAS industry software as a service so

9:17 companies like Adobe um companies like monday.com those big companies are basically being completely

9:28 dismantled by people who are going to go and you know in our world they call vibe

9:33 coding. Vibe coding basically just means you're going to go into a software like

9:40 Replet Bolt lovable cursor and just like just like how you uh do a

9:46 Google search you type something in uh you can do or a chat GBT search you can

9:51 basically prompt some of these platforms to create software for you. So I believe

9:58 that uh there's a ton of opportunities to go and create cheaper or free

10:03 versions of some of these software products um and create businesses around

10:10 that. And so go and create like the uh docuign for you know Germany. Go and

10:19 create the monday.com for uh Canada and charge a tenth of the

10:25 price and try to just suck as many clients as you can. And when you look at

10:28 how big these companies are, these big SAS companies, they do billions a year.

10:33 So even if you could get 1% 2%, it's absolutely insane. So that's one trend

10:39 uh that I think that people listening could go today and go and create a SAS

10:44 business uh to go and compete with some of those. The second one is uh

10:50 agencies. So the consulting business, the freelance business, the agency

10:53 business um that is I mean such a huge business like McKenzie and all these companies

11:04 you know gener have thousands of employees like center thousands and

11:07 thousands of employees. What happens when completing what happens if I can spin up a junior

11:17 Mckenzian analyst in a second? So, I think that there's an opportunity to

11:22 undercut consulting agency and to fulfill it by AI. Now, I know there's

11:26 someone in the comment section that's saying, "Well, you'll never be able to

11:31 do that because I've got really good taste or this person at McKenzie does,

11:36 you know, they hire McKenzie because they don't want to get, you know, fired

11:40 at their job." like no one gets fired, you know, there's a quote, no one gets

11:45 fired uh when when you hire IBM and or no one gets fired when you hire

11:49 Mckenzie. Why is that the case? It's the case because, you know, people trust

11:54 those brands. I'm not saying McKenzie is going to go to zero. I'm not saying

11:57 Adobee is going to go to zero either. I'm just saying that there's going to be

12:00 billions of dollars for you to go and pick up and create cheaper services that probably

12:10 have similar type of results and I don't think enough people are doing it. Yeah.

12:15 You know, that's awesome. Okay. You know, I'm getting excited and and and

12:18 we're going to get into um I was actually reading it last night. You have

12:22 like this fivestep framework of how someone can build uh an AI business in

12:28 2025. And we're going to get into it before we do though. And you spoke about

12:34 the the opportunity and you even mentioned it before of like there are

12:39 people that are that have watched your videos or read your content and actually

12:44 reached out like implemented some of the things that you mention and reached out

12:49 to you to be like, I've built a $50,000 a month business or I'm building like a

12:53 a business that's tracking to a million in revenue from implementing the steps

12:58 that you mentioned. And so I wanted to just do like a little thought exercise

13:03 for you with you before we get into the frameworks which is let's say I had two

13:10 groups of people right I have the group that watches this video and it's a

13:16 complete waste of time to them like nothing happens after watching this

13:20 video and then I have another group of people that they listen to this

13:26 conversation and 6 months or 12 months from this point in time they have built

13:32 something that is having a meaningful impact in their lives and let's just say

13:38 I I zoom out I don't know 100 ft and I just observe their behavior I observe

13:42 the actions that they took in that 6 to 12 month period what did group two do

13:50 that group one wasn't doing like the people that are successful in actually

13:54 doing the thing in building the AI startup what what are they doing versus

13:59 the people that aren't. I would say two things. There's two things that they they are doing

14:06 differently. One is uh the second group is way more curious, just intellectually

14:12 curious about using some of these new products and pushing out stuff into the

14:18 world and seeing what's going to happen. And I I I will say I'm one of those

14:23 people like I hear about a tool, I hear about something that's happening and I

14:26 want to get in I want to get involved. I want to get my hands dirty. The second

14:30 thing is a lot of people are afraid to get their hands dirty and some people think

14:38 that they're too good to get to to get their hands dirty. Um I once met uh a

14:43 guy who uh owned many factories and and he was in the clothing business. Uh so he

14:53 manufactured clothing. He's a very famous uh individual. And uh he would tell me that every year,

15:01 and I don't know if this was truthful, but I it felt truthful. Every year he

15:06 would go and sweep the floors of his factories for one day. For one day only.

15:11 And I was like, "Well, why do you do that?" And he was like, "I need to

15:15 remember how to sweep the floors. I need to remember what it feels like to sew so

15:20 that I understand, you know, the the machines and I understand like my

15:24 business, right?" He's like, I don't feel like I'm better than others because

15:29 like I've succeeded, etc. And I think that there's a lot of people who are

15:32 listening to this and they're like, well, I don't need this. I don't need to

15:37 use Replet or Lovable or Manis or Bolt or try these things or push this idea

15:42 out there because I've got a stable job. I'm I'm, you know, I'm okay. I'll do it

15:46 in I'll do it in six months when the tools get easier. You know, people say I

15:51 hear this narrative a lot. Oh, it's not it's not that good. it wasn't able to

15:55 actually do what I wanted to do, but it was it was 96% there. When it's 96%

16:01 there, that's exactly when you should be training so that when it gets to 100%,

16:06 you're a ma a master. You're you know how to just like prompt this thing and

16:10 get the most out of it. So my hope is that 100% of people listen

16:19 to this and they even if they don't believe that we're at the 100% mark in

16:26 in in AI uh in terms of the output quality and by the way I actually don't

16:30 think we're at 100%. But even if we're not there they still say okay I'm going

16:34 to go implement these things as a part of my workflow. I might not ship

16:39 products that do 10k a month, 20k a month, 50k a month and build companies

16:44 around it, but having it as part of my workflow is going to make me smarter.

16:48 And being smarter is going to yield good results than not being smart about these tools.

16:56 Yeah. You know, I I I think that second point is so good and it's something that

17:02 I I constantly uh remind myself, which is uh you have to embrace the beginner's

17:07 mindset is what I tell myself. I think a lot of the times it's like we we get to

17:13 a point where we feel like ashamed to be beginners. Like we feel ashamed to be

17:18 noviceses. And I think it's interesting for me cuz we've done over a 100

17:22 episodes of the show um all with like entrepreneurs that have achieved these

17:27 like great feats and built huge businesses and they always have that

17:31 ability to go all the way back to step zero and be like the beginner again and

17:38 the humility of that. Um, and that's how you learn, that's how like when people

17:42 talk about gold rush eras or a new wave or whatever, that's how you take

17:46 advantage of opportunities is like you are willing to be the complete novice,

17:53 the beginner and build from the base up. Um, I think it's so good. You actually

17:57 said this when we when we spoke before this conversation and I think it's just

18:02 a nice a nice intro into your framework and how you think about building an AI

18:07 business. You said anyone can sign up for an Instagram account, a Tik Tok

18:13 account, an X account for free. You have access to global distribution instantly.

18:18 And if you can pair that with AI that can automate work, the possibilities are

18:26 endless. Can can you can you explain what do you mean by that? The

18:31 possibilities are endless. Not only is that statement true, but

18:36 there's one thing I missed from that statement, which is not only could

18:41 anyone sign up uh with a Tik Tok account, an Instagram account, X

18:47 account, be connected to the 7 billion people and and unlock opportunities with

18:54 AI. those seven billion people or or 6.5 billion people have a credit card

19:01 attached to the whole network. Never in the history of the planet have you had

19:08 access to 6 billion people, six plus billion people where you have their

19:11 credit cards and anyone who creates great content uh especially with the 4U pages now and

19:22 the 4U pageification of all the different social platforms where it

19:25 doesn't matter if you have a million followers on X you know I I see

19:31 sometimes accounts with 500,000 1500 followers get a million, 2 million, 3

19:35 million views because the content strikes a chord. So the limiting factor

19:44 to creating a a business that um that could change your life re is can

19:51 you create content that's going to resonate with people in a niche that is

20:01 underserved? And can you do you have the skill set to actually put out or vibe

20:08 code a product into the world so that when they see that product they feel

20:14 something they connect with it and can you get them to pay something for that

20:20 product? Now I'm dumbing it down. It's these three things. I'm dumbing it down

20:24 because I actually think that that's all it really is. Like that's what business

20:31 school should be in 2025. Like modern business should be those three things.

20:35 It should be classes dedicated to how do you go viral on social and what does

20:39 that mean? Picking a niche, picking different formats, uh when do you post,

20:44 how to think about those things. It should be about how do you use AI to assist you in

20:54 implementing product ideas that connect with that audience and it should be

20:58 about pricing strategy and business models around how you can get and create

21:04 a sustainable business. That's all it is. I don't know what people learn in

21:08 business school today. I was speaking to a friend of mine. She just did her MBA

21:12 at Colombia. She spent I don't know 200 some odd thousand. I don't know if you

21:15 went to an Ivy League school, so I apologize. No, I didn't. Okay. You're in

21:20 a safe space, Greg. You can talk about it. Safe space. Okay. It's not real.

21:29 real It's fake. It's a bubble. It's a bubble. It's like you're, you know,

21:32 you're not in the real world. It's like you're a bubble boy, you know? That's

21:37 not that's not how you learn business. Like, don't tell me that you're learning

21:40 business if you've never played with It's it's interesting as well because um

21:48 I even I heard it even as I was preparing for this episode. Even in your

21:52 story cuz you're a college dropout. Even in your story that that like urge to

22:00 actually learn and implement what is happening. I think at the time it was in

22:04 engineering like in coding. What's actually at the cutting edge in that's the that's the motivation

22:11 for why you left school. Can you just briefly tell people about that? Can you

22:14 briefly give people that context? Okay, quick break. In this internet technology

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23:31 told me recently that we've done over 130 episodes of this podcast and it

23:36 shocked me because I remember sitting in my younger sister's bedroom filming the

23:41 very first episode. Well, 130 episodes later, one of the things that I've

23:45 learned from our guests is the value of investing your money for the long term.

23:48 And so for me, when it comes to investing in the market, I go to today's

23:53 sponsor, which is public.com. And Public is the app where you can invest in

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24:37 portfolio. So that's publicub.com/calum. This was paid for by

24:41 public investing. The full disclosures are in the podcast description. Let's

24:45 get back to the episode. It was 2009 and I was it was the you know the

24:53 app store had just come out. Um we all knew at that point 2009 2010

24:58 that the app store was going to change everything just like how we all know

25:01 right now that AI is going to change everything just like we knew that cloud

25:05 was going to change everything. The web was going to change everything. It it

25:10 was very obvious in 2009 2010 that mobile and the app store what was going

25:17 to unleash things like Instagram things like Uber etc. So I'm sitting in these

25:24 classes, you know, curious beginner's mind, learning, pushing apps to the app

25:29 store, just trying to get something out just to, you know, again, it wasn't at

25:34 100%. People were creating like beer, beer drinking apps and fart apps and

25:39 stuff like that, but it was just like I need to create something so that

25:44 when a billion people are using apps, I'm ready to ship for the prime time. So

25:50 I went to my professor and I said we are learning about how to create desktop

25:55 apps right now. Like this is this is by the way that class was supposed to be

25:58 this is in Miguel University. It's it was a top 20 university in the world.

26:01 Like here I am thinking I'm at the be best univers one of the best

26:05 universities and we're learning about how to create desktop apps in a world

26:10 where mobile is what matters. And to me that just didn't make

26:15 any sense. So I was like, "Hey, can we learn how to create apps? I think that

26:20 this app thing is going to be really big." And he was like, "That's not how

26:24 this works. There's no apps in the textbook." And he hands me a textbook

26:28 and the textbook was like introduction to like Java or something like that. And

26:33 I was just like, how do I hand my resignation letter in right now?

26:38 Like if you're telling me that at the end of this degree I'm going to be a

26:44 computer scientist but I don't know how to create and scale mobile apps. To me

26:50 that means you haven't done your job. You might you you might have a narrative

26:53 in your head saying like yeah I did I taught them computer science that I you

26:57 know I need to teach them the fundamentals and then they can learn

27:02 mobile apps on their own. But I had an insight which was I'm not going to be able to depend

27:08 on anyone in my life. And I'm sure a lot of people think like this

27:13 too. When my bank account was empty, it wasn't like I can call the professor and

27:17 be like fill my bank account. I learned computer science. It wasn't the degree

27:22 is wasn't something I can actually fall back on. The only thing the only thing

27:29 that you can fall back on is assets. Uh now that asset could be in

27:35 the form of financial assets. It could also be in the form of you've got a

27:39 million followers. It could also be in the form of you have a skill set that is

27:44 really in demand. For example, you understand how to, you know, do AI

27:49 coding. So when I had that insight, I was just like, I need to get the hell

27:53 out of here because I'm not building assets right now. So I quit.

27:59 You know, I love it. I love it. And I and I want to I want to go straight into

28:03 the framework and I want to give people the playbook. And so step one and I and

28:08 I'll read it out and I want to get your reaction is identify a painful workflow.

28:16 Find a problem worth solving. The foundation of any AI startup is

28:22 identifying an inefficiency that AI can automate or enhance. Instead of chasing

28:28 broad AI ideas, focus on specific tedious workflows that people are

28:35 willing to pay to fix. Can what did you mean by that? Identify a painful

28:41 workflow. I have this thesis that when you're in SAS software and you see a

28:47 export button that every time you see an export button there's

28:54 a1 to hund00 million a year AI business that could replace that export button.

28:59 Now the reason I mean that I I'll explain what I why and the reason why is

29:05 when you're exporting data traditionally you have some sort of analysis like the

29:09 reason you're exporting it is you're doing some analysis around

29:15 um the data itself. So for example I'm filing my I'm doing my taxes this week

29:20 and I exported data from my bank because I wanted to do categorize some of the

29:26 expenses. Now the categorization today is being done by human beings. But going

29:31 back to our earlier conversation, what happens when you can have human

29:36 intelligence on tap? When you can essentially humanlike intelligence on

29:41 tap, when you can essentially turn on intelligence um and analyze data. So what I mean by

29:49 find a painful workflow is it painful for me to go and categorize

29:57 um my financial data like yeah kind of like to be honest like I'd much rather

30:01 be like hanging with my baby or you know pushing code or designing or being a bit

30:07 more creative. And I think um what people need to do is in their

30:13 day-to-day lives when they see things like export buttons and when they are a

30:18 part of a workflow that they feel tedious, prompt yourself and say if this

30:25 could be done via AI, what would that look like? You know what? Can you actually cuz I

30:30 want to make it so real for people. Can you give some examples of companies

30:36 either that you've built or you've seen other people build these AI companies

30:41 where basically they identified almost like a pretty niche painoint and they've

30:46 managed to build a tool around it or a service that is now generating millions

30:53 of dollars for them in their business. Yeah. I mean, how much time do you have?

30:57 Like there's I I I'll just tell you one that I was looking at literally right

31:01 before uh this this call. There is a company called Icon. I'll share my screen. Can I share

31:16 my screen? I think so. Yeah. So, anyone who's created Facebook ads or Instagram

31:21 ads knows that it's a it's tedious. It's very tedious. Um, it's you have to find an actor. And

31:29 by the way, I'm not involved in any way in this company. Um, I just thought I I

31:34 just thought it was cool. Um, I just uh yeah, you have to like find a

31:42 creator, you have to manage the creator, you have to edit the the videos, you

31:48 have to write copy. And the best, you know, people who know Facebook ads know

31:51 that the the best people create hundreds, if not thousands of ads. and

31:55 test the best ones and they always need to be creating new ads. How how tedious

32:00 does that sound? It sounds super tedious, right? Yeah. So, um Oh, here

32:06 even on their website they say coming up with 100 unique 30 secondond scripts is

32:11 painful. Um creating three permutations of each of the 100 ads makes the pain

32:17 even worse. So their solution first AI ad maker think chat GBT plus cap cut but

32:23 for making winning ads with AI in minutes add GBT gets your ads to 80 99%

32:29 complete make edits with ad cut for ads and prompt ad GBT until you're

32:34 happyerson creative teams make 30 ads per month with icon they make 300 and

32:40 get more winners that's a big deal and by the way these they look at these like

32:48 these are AI. This is AI, dude. Um, it doesn't look like AI, but these

32:53 are AI. So, the actual creative itself is AI. Yeah. Yeah. This is, see, they have AI generated

33:06 creators. That's what they call it. You know, I'm just thinking about the

33:09 person at home that's that's listening. And so I like what you mentioned of like

33:15 anytime you see an export button, there's a potential pain point that you

33:21 could monetize. And so the thing that that I would not push back, but the

33:26 thing that I would be thinking is like how does someone figure out the

33:30 difference? How does someone basically figure out the pain point that they

33:34 should actually act on? And by that I mean it's not just like a minor

33:39 inconvenience that no one would pay for. It's actually a pain point big enough

33:45 that you can monetize it. Like how do I how does someone make that

33:50 decision? I think a lot of people watching this video work at jobs which they don't like

33:58 that much or that they think that they can unlock their potential a little bit

34:04 more and they listen to this because it fires them up. That's my

34:08 thesis based on like the comment section that I saw on this pod on this on this

34:11 channel and stuff like that. So that means that so you might

34:18 look at this this business uh icon and be like how would I you know it doesn't

34:24 seem that it doesn't seem that painful. It doesn't you know I don't really see

34:30 it. But if you're a marketing manager working at an e-commerce startup and

34:35 you're creating 20 ads a month, that's you probably know it's pretty painful.

34:40 You probably don't like doing it. So, if anyone has good ideas for AI startups,

34:45 it's people who work at jobs they don't like and doing painful stuff. So, if

34:51 you're watching this and you can take stock of here's the two or three things

34:58 that I do that are repetitive that I don't like doing, chances are there's a

35:03 good chance that you can plug an AI startup to go and fix that workflow and

35:10 make it a lot more efficient with a they call it a human in the loop. Um, you

35:15 know, maybe it's not fully AI powered, but you can still have a human review

35:19 the ad. You know, Icon is an example of a human in the loop business. It's not

35:23 like it's fully automated where you just say, "Hey, I need 10. I need 300 ads and

35:29 it's going to go and optimize this uh click-through rates and the cost per

35:33 click and everything." No, you still have a human who looks at the ads, who

35:38 posts the ads, stuff like that. Um, so that that's what I would say to to those

35:42 people. Yeah. You know, I just I just think it's so good. And it's almost like

35:48 the it's almost step one is like just do a a an audit of your own work life and

35:54 like those two to three areas and we all know them, right? Those two to three

35:58 things that you do every single week that is so painful and so tedious there,

36:05 your AI business idea is right there. It's right there. these and you know you

36:10 think that the biggest AI business ideas are somewhere in Stanford but they're

36:16 right here because these people have intimate knowledge around these

36:21 workflows better than anyone else right so you're competing people who are

36:26 creating AI startups they're competing they're going to compete with

36:29 the people who listen to this and they're going to try to figure out how

36:33 do I get some insider like the people listening to this are the insiders

36:37 basically Funny enough, cuz these people know the workflows. Yeah. Okay. You know

36:44 what? Okay. So, step two, hack V1 fast. Launch an imperfect MVP quickly. Rather

36:51 than spending months refining a product, quickly launch a minimum viable product

36:56 to validate demand. Can you talk through that? Yeah. The mi the mistake that a lot of

37:04 people make is uh they find a tedious workflow and they're like I just they're like I know

37:11 that this is going to be a big business. I'm going to go and create a a big brand

37:17 around this. I'm going to go create a deck around this. I'm going to go and

37:21 spend the next 6 n 12 months building this fully featured product because

37:27 that's what this audience needs in order for it to be very valuable. And the goal

37:34 isn't you know you know the goal is to create a minimal lovable product. People

37:37 talk about minimal viable product. It's it's actually to create a minimal

37:41 lovable product. Um, and uh, thinking about how can you use tools like Replet and Bolt and stuff

37:51 like that to just get something out there that you can uh, just gain some like have a

37:59 foundation. Think of it as like a foundation. Um, you don't need to build,

38:03 you know, Rome in one day. And and that's what I mean by that. Just get

38:08 something out there um, and iterate iterate from there. You know, I actually, Greg, I have um I

38:16 have a confession to make, which is um the first two businesses that I ever

38:20 tried to start, they were t-shirt lines in university. Spectacular failures,

38:26 like complete flops. And the thing, the biggest thing that I did wrong is I

38:32 tried to develop this perfect product. At the time, it was like when the kind

38:37 of athleisure athleisure trend uh was starting and I was like, I'm going to

38:40 build the next Nike. I'm going to build the next Air Jordan. And we just never

38:45 ended up releasing a product cuz I would just keep trying to make it perfect

38:50 before I would show anyone. And it speaks exactly to what you're saying,

38:53 which is you don't need the perfect product. You need the minimum lovable

38:58 product. I think that that's so that's just so good. Well, I'll tell you I'll

39:03 tell you why a lot of people create want to create the perfect product because

39:07 it's actually similar to why people don't post on social media. So, the

39:12 reason why people don't post consistently on social media and build

39:17 audiences is because they a lot of the time they they feel like they're getting judged by

39:27 their friends and family. And it doesn't feel good to put out a tweet and get

39:31 zero likes, especially after your 40th tweet. And it isn't fun to post on

39:38 Instagram and only and see no likes and just seeing a lot of shares because

39:41 you're like, the reason why people are sharing this is they're sharing it. My

39:44 friends might or my friends quote unquote are sharing this and they're

39:48 making fun of me and they're they're like, why is Greg posting about AI

39:51 coding tools? That's so lame. Or something like that. Um, products are the same way in the

39:59 sense that we want to be proud of the products that we ship. We don't want to

40:02 put something out in the world that we're not proud of. And that's

40:10 why like a lot of us are Steve Jobs like in the sense it sound like you are kind

40:13 of like Steve Jobsesque in the sense that you're like I need to I know what I

40:17 want and I know what needs to get out there and I have a a high barrier for

40:25 what makes an incredible product and that's why I need to perfect it. But the

40:31 way to perfect is actually just consistency and iteration. So the way

40:37 you actually get perfection is to put something out there, get feedback,

40:43 iterate from there. Um, and I wish more people would just amp up the quantity of

40:51 things that they put out there. Um, and realize that as you amp out quantity,

40:55 you will increase quality. cuz I know that there's someone listening to this

41:00 and and they're saying, "Oh my god, he his his philosophy is just put crap out

41:06 there and something will stick." And I'm not saying put crap out there. I'm just

41:11 saying that what you think is the product is usually, you know, instead of

41:16 10 features, it's usually one feature. and and then the way to get to 10

41:22 features is actually uh by iterating your way and adding one feature at a

41:27 time. M I think it's like entrepreneurs and like just trying to build

41:31 businesses, we also you just have an instinct of like you know when you can

41:36 put something out and it will be valuable even if it's just to one person

41:40 like a lot of businesses started out just being valuable to like a very

41:45 specific type of person or one person in particular. And so, you know what? I

41:49 want to I want to actually cuz you mentioned um Cursor or Replet. These are

41:56 tools that before speaking to you, I'd never heard of. Can Can you can you

42:00 explain or just cuz I'm sure there's a lot of people like me. Um can you

42:06 explain or just show people what these tools are, what they do? Yes. Today, okay, how about this?

42:15 Well, let's do like a quick 5 10 minute crash course on two two products

42:21 um two AI products I think would be really valuable to people. So maybe

42:26 let's start with using Vzero which is a design tool and then we

42:31 could also use something called Manis which no you know is is is the talk of

42:36 the AI crowd right now. How does that screen. And we can go V. Let's ship

42:56 something. So Vzero, you go to vzero.dev, I think. Yep. Um, it's basically like an AI

43:02 product designer. Um, it's free to sign up. I don't pay for it. You can see my account

43:10 is free. Um, and we're gonna see how it works today. Do you have a website that

43:16 you know an idea for a website that you want to build? It could be anything. Oh,

43:22 an idea for a website I want to build. You know what? I'm always trying to

43:29 find, this might sound basic, but I'm always trying to find like great uh

43:34 restaurants or bars in New York. M and so maybe I don't know some sort of page

43:40 that like but it's all like local reviews so it's not like these I don't

43:43 know big company reviews it's like people that actually like foodies that

43:56 recommendations so you can literally just type that into Yeah. and it will

44:01 design the site. Yeah. So, I'm going to say I want to create a restaurant

44:06 directory of best places to eat in NYC. But like you literally talk to it

44:10 like a human being. And I'm going to zoom in so people could see here. But

44:17 the problem with most restaurant directories is they look kind of lame

44:23 and their uh recommendations are even lamer. I want to create something like

44:36 a something I don't know. I want to create just from a stylistic

44:41 perspective. Do you have any ideas? Oh, what is that? Was it called Belly? There was an

44:48 app where it's like all of the reviews are like from your friends and your

44:53 peers. So it doesn't feel like it's like some corporate sponsorship or someone

44:59 paid for like their restaurant to get the first placement. It feels like

45:03 someone you know. I want to say it was maybe B L was it B E L I? I think I think that's what

45:14 it was. Yeah, Belly app. I found it. Okay. Golly, I ain't thought about that app in

45:21 like two years. I'm I'm impressed with So, what you can do is you can literally

45:30 take a screenshot of that app. I want to create something similar to Belly, but

45:35 do we, you know, but let's say we want a web version, but a web version. Yeah.

45:42 And I want it to look Give me one or two brands that you like the design of. Any brand. any

45:50 brand. Apple and let me think I was going to say like WBY Parker. Those are two completely

46:00 different brands, but I I like the aesthetic. I would I wanted to look like I wanted

46:06 to look from an aesthetic perspective to be like Apple or Warby

46:23 minimalistic, and with a few pops of color. And let's just see what happens.

46:30 So, what have we done? We've just just prompted it like we would a

46:36 human being. And what Vzero is doing now is just trying to figure out

46:42 what, you know, what what what to build first, right? So it's saying I'll create

46:45 a modern moistic restaurant directory for NYC with clean aesthetics inspired

46:50 by Apple Mor Parker similar to the belly app you shared but as a web uh

46:56 application. So we didn't really give it that much that many constraints and we

47:00 did you know for example we didn't say we want this feature we want that

47:04 feature but it's still figuring it out. You can see on the right hand side it's

47:09 figuring out name, image, um, curated lists, um, and it's actually

47:17 writing out the code for all of this website. Look, classic New York deli

47:22 serving Jewish fair, including pastrami queen, you know. So, it's going to put

47:27 in some placeholder names and it's going to go and uh just try to create

47:32 something that's clean and then we would be able to just copy the code and and

47:36 actually deploy it. Meaning deploy basically means just pushing it to the

47:42 web with one prompt. How how quickly have you seen someone go through this

47:46 process? So, like they've given the prompt, they've got the code and they've

47:49 actually deployed a website and started selling something. like how how quickly

47:53 have you seen it come around turn around? I mean when you go on X people will say

47:59 like I one prompted this and I'm making five grand a month or whatever it is. I

48:05 I don't see that you know like to me it's going to take at least 24 hours.

48:10 Call it 24 hours. You can do something in 24 hours realistically. I'll call it

48:14 what it is. Yeah. That's still pretty remarkable, isn't it? Have a you have a

48:18 website for your new business in 24 hours. Oh my god. And when I say like 24

48:23 hours is like you're going to have in something insane that would have cost

48:27 you hundreds of thousands of dollars a few years ago. You know, I I'm being

48:33 just very conservative, making sure that uh you know, I within one business day,

48:38 24 hours max, you're going to have something pretty dope. So, here we go. They even named

48:48 our our startup NYC eats, which I actually think isn't horrible. Um, it it

48:54 gives, you know, trending, new and notable, date night, group dining.

49:01 Um, it's it's coded this, it's designed this, and if we wanted, we can deploy

49:06 this to the web um with this, you know, has a search engine. Um, is it the most

49:13 perfect website of all time? Not really, but it's clean. And if I wanted to

49:17 change the design, I could say make a logo for NYC, make more make it more

49:24 colorful, you know, add uh images for these for these things. And that's what

49:28 you have to do to to take it from like a six on 10 to a 9 on 10. So, it's almost

49:34 like I remember someone explained these kind of AI these large language models

49:38 to me. He said like a lot of people and he was talking about chat GPT

49:41 specifically. He said a lot of people use chat GPT like Google like you know

49:46 with Google you just type in like I don't know restaurants in New York City

49:50 like you type in what you want and it spits out a reply. It's quite

49:54 transactional in that way. He said that with chat GPT specifically and it sounds

49:58 similar here. It's more of a conversation. So, like you you give it

50:03 something, it gives you something, then you give it feedback and something else.

50:08 Then it like it's this two-way street and that's really how you get to this

50:12 this minimum lovable product that you mentioned. Is that right? Yes, that's

50:16 that's actually that's absolutely right. That's why when I started this started

50:20 this conversation around Vzero, I was like this is your AI product designer.

50:25 So, you literally chat think of it as your employee that you're pay you're not

50:30 paying for. Yeah. it's an employee that you can just say do this, do that. Of

50:34 course, you're going to hit limits. Um, and then you can pay for vzero and stuff

50:38 like that. Um, but incredible that you can essentially one prompt a directory website and and

50:47 and start deploying it. To me, to me, like it's unbelievable. And it looks so

50:51 real as well. It look it looks good. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Um, I want to

50:57 show one more example. Uh, a lot of people haven't seen um, do you see my

51:01 screen? Yeah. Yeah, I can see your screen. Cool. This is Manis.

51:07 Yes. So, Manis um is a uh Chinese startup. So, some people have

51:17 probably heard of uh DeepSeek, which was the Chat GPT competitor out of China. This is kind of

51:25 like it's not from Deepseek, but it's a Chinese startup. uh you know and so you

51:29 know be careful what you do with a Chinese startup obviously so like you

51:34 know in terms of putting in your data and stuff like that but I will say it's

51:39 one of the most interesting AI agent platforms I have ever used

51:47 um uh I I asked it for example uh have you heard of uh Starface it's like a uh

51:53 no pimple patch company it's a pimple patch company I think it does like you

51:57 know many many millions a year in revenue and I I I prompted it can you

52:04 design a CPG product I'm looking for boxing and the actual product the idea

52:08 is a starface competitor or pimple patch but for older adults the reason why I

52:13 said uh for older adults is the starface branding is very uh like when you go to starface here

52:19 I'll show it to you like it's like young right I think like I know what you're

52:22 talking about cuz I'll see people in public they have like these stars they

52:27 almost stickers. Exactly. On their face. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

52:30 Yeah. You see it? You see my screen? Yeah, I can see you. Yeah.

52:35 Cool. So, um I was like, there's probably an opportunity to build something for older

52:41 adults. And how I got here, by the way, was uh on my podcast, the Startup Ideas

52:47 podcast, I someone was using a trend tool to figure out trends and and

52:51 basically helped realize this opportunity. So, I just plugged it into

52:55 Madness. In the past, I would go to my team and be like, "Go figure this out."

52:59 But here, I just plugged into Manis. And it just started re look at this.

53:03 Researching I'll I'll zoom in. Yeah. Uh research, you know, product and

53:11 competitors in the space. Um you know, it looks at all the com It looks at all

53:15 the competitors. It basically does a complete product analysis. Goes through all the different

53:24 Um, it does like a whole research summary. Um, it does the packaging

53:29 design like it tells me what my packaging should be. And if I wanted, I

53:34 can, so for example, it says it should be a round rectail compact case. It

53:38 should fit in purses. It shouldn't be slippery. And then if I wanted, I can

53:42 actually ask Manis to go and actually actually design what it looks like.

53:48 Yeah. So, it's telling me exactly what I should do for this audience.

53:54 And the coolest part about Manis is it's it's a computer. So,

54:02 um, let's see if I can show you this. Okay, here we go. Wait, it created.

54:09 So, this is this is Manis basically scouring the web. Like, it it goes and

54:14 searches like it went to this research website where it looked at what's the

54:20 market for patches. It literally goes like an employee going and literally

54:25 researching uh exactly how to, you know, is this a good business or not? It breaks down

54:32 exactly what it's going to do. Look, it says research tasks, research starface

54:37 product details, analyze competitors, and then it shows the product design

54:42 task that it does. Um all the marketing strategy tasks. It literally uh writes

54:48 out the deliverables like it thinks like an employee and it actually goes and

54:53 scour the web and shows you you know you can actually watch it live go and do

54:58 this and this took like 12 minutes I think. Yeah. But you know pretty

55:01 incredible. you know what comes to mind it's like having um it's even more than

55:06 employee it's like having a team and so I can kind of I can see how if you can

55:12 find the right pain point um it's going to get you to that point

55:16 of building that minimum viable product and then even past that it's almost like

55:20 the engine for your business and so you're able to build just such a

55:25 profitable company without having like all of these employees and overhead um

55:31 you know I want to I want move on. I want to go through through the other the

55:35 other steps in the in the framework before we get out of here. And maybe

55:38 I'll combine actually step three and step four. So step three is grow

55:45 distribution daily. Turn your product into a movement. AI startups fail not

55:50 because of bad products, but because they don't have users. Daily

55:56 distribution efforts compound over time and make or break a startup.

56:03 Can you can you explain that? Yeah, I think uh I think a lot of people

56:07 are going to create are going to vibe code. They're going to use Bannis.

56:10 They're going to use Vzero. They're going to put put their startup live and

56:13 it's going to be crickets and they're going to be like, "Wait, what? I didn't

56:17 expect that." And in a world where the amount of products and software and startups are

56:25 going to 100,000x because the tools make it so that something that you know cost

56:30 hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a few years ago now doesn't cost

56:37 anything. The distribution is the moat. So, uh, it what I mean by that is if you can

56:46 create a system around posting content every day and growing your audience and

56:52 positioning it like a uh like a movement, making it different,

56:58 making it even look like from a brand and design perspective that it's

57:03 different. Um, so when you're in V 0ero, I recommend that you I actually don't recommend that you

57:09 design things that look like Apple or Warby Parker. I actually recommend that

57:13 you make things look like the anti- Apple and anti-war Parker in a lot of

57:17 ways. Make it look chunky. Put a lot of colors. Um, and post content every day

57:24 because that's what's going to get you customers at the end of the day. Yeah.

57:28 There's only two ways to get customers, right? You either have it organic or you

57:37 pay for it. And um organic customers are always, you know, they're better than

57:41 not paying for it is better than paying for it basically. Yeah. Let's talk about

57:45 organic just for a quick second, which is I think for me personally, I am so

57:51 big on step one. Like whenever it comes to doing something, I'm so big on step

57:55 one because I think if you can if you can successfully execute step one, you

58:00 start to build momentum. And so for the person that's listening that's like, I

58:04 don't have an audience right now, like the my following is not zero, but it's

58:08 like close to zero, you know? I'm not I'm not Greg Eisenberg. Um, what would

58:17 be your step one to them of like posting content in a way that if

58:24 they commit to it over time, they're going to build an audience that they can

58:28 then launch their minimum lovable product to. Could I show a PDF about

58:34 this because I actually just wrote this down. Go for it. Okay, let me just pull it up.

58:41 So, I'm going to go through this four-step framework on how to build an

58:47 audience in 2025 in in four minutes or less. And this is the answer to your

58:54 question. So, before I begin, I believe that the way to build businesses today

58:58 is using a framework that I coined the ACP framework. You start with an

59:03 audience, you build a community, and then you build a product. So your idea

59:07 for an AI startup, you might want to just start as a Twitter account or an

59:13 Instagram page and start testing what people like in that audience. Start

59:17 building a following so that then once you've got that, you can build a product

59:22 for those people. Basically, the old way of building a startup was start with a

59:26 product, then build the audience. Now the new way is start with an audience,

59:31 then build community product. There's a four-step playbook uh that I wrote out

59:38 um for for basically how do you systematize and build an audience that's

59:42 going to work for you. So the first thing is uh first step is you know a lot

59:47 of people don't do this but identify who you're creating for. Understand what

59:53 they're not getting from others. Um and you know I just put this as a note

59:56 because if you aren't getting engagement start one level broader than your niche.

60:01 A lot of people start a little too niche. So sometimes you might want to go

60:04 a little broad broader. The secret to building an audience is formats. Even

60:09 this, you know, YouTube channel has a format. You have a specific type of

60:14 format that is working for you. So what I tell people to do is pick one format

60:19 for each business day. Try to systematize that. look for formats

60:23 outside your niche and copy those n you know that format and

60:30 bring it to your niche your niche. I'm going to go uh step three systems. Uh

60:35 this is really important. So you want to you're going to want to create your

60:38 creative faucet routine. What what I mean by creative faucet is find what's

60:43 how you're going to get your creative juices flowing. So for example that

60:48 might be you listen to podcasts to get you know your creative faucet going and

60:52 you need a a strong creative faucet because you want to have interesting

60:56 ideas and interesting content to share on your audience. So it might be

61:01 podcast, blogs, social and then capture those ideas in your and I use a notes

61:07 app and then just schedule out those pieces of content. And the last thing is

61:12 create a goal. So, if you want to create an audience in 2025, just pick one

61:18 primary goal for 2025. Now, a lot of people pick the goal of, I need a

61:21 certain amount of followers. I think that's actually not a great idea. Think

61:27 of something like a 25,000 person email list, a million dollars in sales through

61:31 social. So, my point is the primary goal for your audience might not necessarily

61:35 be followers. It might be something a bit more downstream like revenue or an

61:41 email list. Um, that's my advice to people around how to build an audience

61:45 in 2025. Yeah. No, that's so good. I I love the um pick one format each day because I

61:55 think what I've realized um with content and actually just businesses in general,

61:59 the usually the thing you do on day one is not ultimately what is successful for

62:04 you. And so from speaking with content creators that have got millions of

62:08 followers, the thing that they do really well is first of all they post because

62:13 then you get feedback and then they're doing different things and they're like

62:17 they're looking for that spike. They're looking for that the the type of post or

62:21 the format to your point that when they posted it instead of getting I don't

62:28 know five likes it got 20 likes. And as soon as they get that spike they're like

62:31 okay that's the one. they double down and they continue to to go up. I think

62:36 it's I think it's so good. I'm gonna go to step four, which is nail retention

62:43 and perfect the core loop. Keep your users coming back. AI businesses

62:48 shouldn't just attract users, you must keep them engaged. The best startups

62:54 optimize their core loop. Can you explain what that means? What is a core

62:58 loop? The the problem with a lot of AI startups is a lot of people are trying

63:05 these products because it's you know I call it curiosity revenue like these

63:09 startups are saying oh wow I hit 3 million ARR but it's just people trying

63:15 out you know these products but the core loop meaning like the the core value

63:20 creation isn't really there. It's just that they're think of it as like an

63:25 impulse buy you know it's you're you're there. trying it out, but like the

63:30 actual foundation isn't isn't there. And remember when we talked about MVP and

63:35 MLP, we talked about it from like a foundation standpoint. Like your MLP is

63:39 like a very strong foundation of one killer feature aka core loop um that you

63:48 know is going to drive retention up. And why does retention matter and why is it

63:53 so important is because uh you know we talked about fancy words

63:58 in the beginning of this uh episode is retention is just a fancy

64:04 word that says do people like your product and use it every day. If it's

64:08 very valuable, you're going to see high retention, meaning you're going to see

64:12 people use that product every single day. And that should be your goal as a

64:18 as a product creator. You want to drive value. If you can drive value, you'll be

64:22 able to monetize it for, you know, so your your first goal is to drive as much

64:28 value as possible. So that and from a metric standpoint, that means your

64:31 you'll notice your attention is quite high. M you know I think it's um I think

64:36 it's a really good point and it's a mistake that we make with as

64:40 entrepreneurs and I've made this mistake which is so often it's like our business

64:44 isn't growing or we don't have the revenue that we want and so instantly we

64:50 think I need new people I need new users I need new customers you don't think

64:55 wait all of the customers that I already have how could I give them more value

65:00 like we don't think about retention and So you you spoke about

65:06 core loop. If someone wanted to understand that and also start to

65:12 understand some of the steps of like how they could actually improve the

65:17 retention in their business, where would you advise them to look first? Like

65:21 where what would you advise as step one in that process? Well, when when people let's say you've

65:31 created a product and you're noticing that people are churning, meaning

65:36 they're stopping to use the product. Uh there's basically two ways

65:43 to do analytics. One is uh I think it's called behavioral an analytics which is

65:48 looking at something like a Google Analytics dashboard which says my

65:54 retention is 30%. I had 25,000 daily active users. Basically just looking at

65:58 the numbers. And then there's what's called I think it's called attitudinal

66:03 analytics or voice of customer analytics which is basically asking people why you

66:09 know what they did what they didn't like about the product and getting their

66:13 voice of customer. Let me explain quickly why it's important to have both

66:17 sets of data and why most people just look at the pure behavioral stuff.

66:24 Imagine you are, you know, you go to shop at a Walmart and, you know, you're

66:29 at the Walmart, you spend 45 minutes there and you spend $200 there. If you

66:33 just look at behavioral analytics, it's going to be like, wow, what a great

66:37 customer. Person spend 45 minutes because, you know, they love the how

66:42 beautiful the shop is. They spend $200 and that our average, you know, cart

66:47 size is $100. So, they spend two times. So, you know, what the average person

66:51 spends. marketing team is high-fiving. This is amazing. But what didn't what

66:56 didn't that capture? Well, it didn't capture the fact that they spent 45

67:00 minutes in the store because they couldn't find what they were looking for

67:05 and there they spent $200, but their budget was $500 and so they there was a missed

67:11 opportunity. So my recommendation to people who you know are going are going

67:17 to use this workflow which is you know building the audience vibe coding

67:22 putting out these products is look at the retention numbers but use voice of

67:27 customer uh open-ended questions asking people you know what they liked about it

67:30 what they didn't like about it to get a full picture and using that full picture

67:36 that'll help you increase retention. M you know what it reminded me of as I was

67:40 listening to you is almost that quote of like um like on your on your deathbed or

67:46 whenever it ends the thing that people are going to remember is how did you make them feel?

67:53 Yes. And so like sometimes as businesses it's like you can get so fixated on just

67:58 like the the quantitative number just the number on the screen that you

68:02 completely forget but how did you make the customer feel? Yes. And so you could you could win and

68:08 I think this is to your point like you could be winning in terms of like the

68:12 the numbers but actually there's a huge missed opportunity if that feeling that

68:16 the customer has isn't a good one and that's when they're going to churn and

68:19 you're going to lose customers in business. Yeah. There's there's a lot of

68:24 people in the tech world who who pride themselves with with the uh the fact

68:28 that they're data driven. They say I'm data driven. I'm data driven. What does

68:31 that mean? That means that the data drives their decisions. I don't believe

68:39 in that. My my saying is data informs not drives. I think that when we let the

68:47 data run our companies fully, that's when you end up creating tasteless

68:53 products that you know are very hard to differentiate and that we don't want to

68:57 get in there, right? So we want to we want to create startups that have the

69:01 highest probability of success. So uh you want to look at the data and you

69:05 want to like you don't want to drive blind obviously but you want to just you

69:11 just want to have it one piece of the puzzle not the full puzzle you know on

69:16 the on the point of the core loop I think about the business that maybe they

69:19 have like it launches and it has like a couple features like you're kind of

69:23 experimenting you have a few aspects to it how does someone identify actually

69:29 this is the core loop like Even if if my business is having success, this feature

69:33 over here actually doesn't really matter. But this one really does like

69:38 this is the core reason why people are using it. I think it's it's a similar

69:42 question to like how do I know if I have product market fit? You'll know because

69:47 people are telling will be screaming it at you. The hard part is once you have

69:52 product market fit, how do you stay focused? So for example, you know,

69:57 Callumly, a lot of people know that company. It's a multi-billion dollar

70:00 company. It's a great success story. I think he bootstrapped it um for a very

70:07 long time and it's a pretty core one feature, right? You send someone a link

70:12 and they can book a time with you. Now, of course, they can build stuff around

70:15 that, but for the longest time, they just focused on the core loop. They just

70:19 focused on how do I make the best scheduling product uh out there? And you

70:27 can schedule via Google calendar now, but I still see more Calendarly links

70:31 than I do Google calendar. I don't know about you. And I think it's because they

70:36 focused on the core loop. Yeah, that's actually really cool of like I I think

70:41 it's actually empowering in a way, which is you can build a multi-billion dollar

70:46 business by focusing on like one core feature and then building a brand around

70:50 it. Cuz I'm sure that's also part of it, right? Is like Kalan Lee like even in

70:53 the name, right? you like I'm going to send you my Calendarly. Like you don't

70:58 think Google, you think Calendarly first and that's like the brand. Um but just

71:04 they focused on just doing one thing and it and it's led to that

71:10 result. Absolutely. On step five, partner with creators to scale. Leverage

71:17 influencerled growth. Many AI startups struggle to scale because they only

71:21 focus on the product, not on communitydriven growth. Creator

71:25 partnerships help you break into markets faster and build trust. Can you talk

71:31 about that? The PDF I went through, how to build an audience in

71:37 2025. That's the blueprint, but it's going to take time. You know what I

71:41 mean? Like it's going to take time. So the question for for people is does it

71:47 make sense to uh try to get creators give them 25% of revenue 40% of revenue 50% of revenue

71:56 just coming up with creative deals to be like you've got this audience of x

72:00 amount of thousands of people I think that this product they would love how can we make

72:07 this a win-win and positioning it like that and give them the revenue it

72:13 doesn't mean that you need to do do it with them forever. You know what you're

72:16 in the background you're still building your own audience. So you might be able

72:21 to reduce your dependency on creators you know in a two years three years four

72:27 years but I do think that a mistake a lot of people make is they don't uh they

72:32 don't go to creators and try to figure out how can we make this work for you. M

72:37 I think you're right and I think I would assume I don't know this but I would

72:41 assume one of the biggest reasons is let's say that I'm at the point where

72:46 I've launched my AI startup it has good traction like we're making a good amount

72:50 of money I know that like I've have the product market fit I I've figured out

72:54 the core loop and it works and now I'm thinking about scaling I would say the

72:58 thing that holds people back from like the creator partnerships is they're

73:02 probably like I just don't know any creators like how do I even start? Like

73:08 I don't know how to get Ali Abdal or like you know whoever it is, Colin and

73:14 Samir to um partner with me on on my product. What What is your advice to

73:18 someone that's at that point and that's the thing that's holding them back?

73:23 Limiting. Going back to what we talked about in the beginning, it's it's a

73:27 limiting belief. They all those people you mentioned, they're human beings,

73:31 too. They might be getting a lot more text messages and DMs than the average

73:37 human being, but I've texted with Colin and Samir. I've texted with Ali and

73:41 Abdal. Like, you know, I the they're real people, right? And when I was when I was when I had

73:52 less than 2,000 followers, I I realized that on on Twitter that, you know, 50%

74:00 of creators had their or or accounts had their uh DMs open like you can literally

74:05 just DM them. What is the cost? Just what is the cost to you person listening

74:12 to going and just DMing Ali Abdal DM? My DMs are open, you know, like I look at I

74:17 look at every one of my DMs, 100% of my DMs. I might not respond to 75% of them,

74:23 but I look at every single one. If something is interesting to me, I

74:30 respond. And I've I've hired people. I've partnered with people. I've

74:32 invested in people. I've acquired companies all through DMs. And when I

74:37 was just starting up in the early days, I would reach out to people

74:42 and you know, it sucks. You have to be okay to get rejected, but like one in

74:46 every hundred DMs, you get the most interesting conversation of your life

74:49 and it's worth it. And just what's the downside? People have to ask themselves,

74:52 what is the downside? It's free to do. Why are you not doing it?

74:56 You know what? Here's here's where I want to end. And I want to end with